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In this episode, Brett, Brian, and Jason are joined by Pastor Brady Finnern for the first of a series on the similarities and differences between the AFLC and the LC-MS on Holy Communion.
Being Lutheran Podcast Episode #125 – Holy Communion w/Pastor Brady Finnern, Part 1
So, where is the difference between “real presence” and “transubstantiation”? Does the fruit of the vine actually become the blood of Christ? I understand respect for the left over elements, but the bread does not become flesh nor does the cup become blood. Still Christ is truly present for the forgiveness of sins. Asking for a friend. 🙂
One of the arguments I’ve heard for Lutherans holding to real presence instead of transubstantiation, we point to Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 referring to the elements after the institution of the Lord’s Supper rather than to the body and blood of Christ.
It sounds like you guys believe that every single person who ever partakes of the Lord’s Supper is forgiven. Am I right about that? If so, I have a couple questions:
(1) Why would you ever “fence the Table”?
and
(2) How do you reconcile that belief with I Corinthians 11:27-30 where it doesn’t seem at all that the people Paul is discussing are forgiven? Actually, it seems as if they are punished for partaking in the Lord’s Supper.
I suspect that you will say in light of this passage that clearly not all people are forgiven when they eat the bread and drink the wine. If that is the case, then why not be more measured in your statement about the forgiveness that one receives at the Table?
JT,
Great questions. Unfortunately, I’m going through a period where I’m absolutely swamped, but I’ve notified the others and will let you know if they respond (they also may just respond here). Thanks!
Great question.
First, I want to be clear that I personally do NOT believe that everyone who takes communion at the congregation that I serve is forgiven. I am very intentional with the warning I give and then leave it in the hands of each congregation member. I am not the communion police, however, if I am aware of anyone who would fall into the category, based upon my convictions, of “unworthy” as it is stated in 1 Corinthians 11, I would not serve such a person. I am also very intentional about the blessing/absolution I give to those who just participated in the Lord’s Supper. There is a delicate balance that one must walk between false assurance to the unrepentant and the assurance of the forgiveness of sins to the repentant. I do not want to speak for Jason and Brett, however, if you were left with the feeling that we believe that all who participate in communion (even the unrepentant) are forgiven, I personally would ask your forgiveness because I do NOT believe that at all. Only God can forgive sons and am extremely mindful with reality and choose my words very carefully. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Brian Ricke
Sorry for the typo in the last sentence! I should be: Only God can forgive sons and am extremely mindful with that reality and choose my words very carefully.
UUGHHHH!!! Sorry again!!
Only God can forgive sins and I am extremely mindful with that reality and choose my words very carefully.
There! now it’s right. Sorry! 🙂
Brian,
Thank you for the response and I am glad to read that. I know you can’t speak for Jason and Brett since, apparently, your denomination promotes quite a bit of independency. 🙂
This is our first time to correspond with each other. I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your contribution to this podcast and the way in which you conduct yourself. I love you guys and your work. I pray for you often. However, every week seems to confirm our differences and why I could never be a Lutheran regardless of how much I wanted to be. I don’t know if Jason told you but my family’s European name was von Bora just like Luther’s wife’s maiden name. So, I have long known about the connection and Luther is in the top 3 or 5 of my all-time favorite historical people.
All that being said, my Reformed commitments on core issues stop me from going there. However, one of the things I think Lutherans are better at than us Reformed is in your approach to worship spaces. There are things about Lutheran worship that I simply love. I am somewhat eclectic in my Reformed positions since I accept the Reformed idea of the Regulative Principle of Worship but I reject the Reformed idea that images cannot be used in worship. I actually argue that a consistent approach to the Regulative Principle of Worship allows images in the worship space since God commanded images to be placed in the Temple! As long as we don’t worship them we are okay. So when I went into an LCMS Church here in Austin I was blown away by the beauty and solemnity of the worship space. I so wish we Reformed would go beyond what I refer to as the “four walls and a sermon” approach to worship space.
Any way, keep up the good work.
By the way, your initial typo is not necessarily theologically wrong. It is true that only God can forgive His sons. 😉